the US military's use of torture is responsible for the deaths of thousands of US soldiers because it inspired foreign fighters to kill Americans.
Anyone making such a ludicrous claim cannot be taken seriously, no matter what his experience and background. Total U.S. military losses are in the "thousands." So he is essentially arguing that our interrogation practices caused the majority of U.S. military deaths. I guess there'd only be a couple hundred U.S. military deaths if we hadn't resorted to torture. Does anyone actually believe that?
There are various powerful arguments against using torture or torture-like techniques. Making false statements that torture doesn't work, or putting forth crazy assertions that it somehow caused thousands of military deaths are not among them.
As a conservative-libertarian and agnostic, I like the blog and wish you success.
ReplyDeleteLike you, I have way too much common sense to believe the boiler plate nonsense, pedaled by just about everybody - including the military - about torture catagorically not working. Give me them, an empty room, and a hammer, and I'll probably get whatever I want out of them.
Of course it works, particularly when you have a secondary source to cross-check information against. The argument should be over whether the side effects and political costs are worth the short term benefits (i.e., the classic case of the French and the taking of Algiers). That is open to question.
But I can't stand people who act as if both they and I are stupid and just wish away reality when the truth is inconvenient.
MIR,
ReplyDeleteThanks.
"Of course it works, particularly when you have a secondary source to cross-check information against."
Exactly. I've made that point many times while arguing with people about the whole torture issue. If the information desired is specific and verifiable, it can be obtained by torture. And in some cases, torture, or even the threat of torture, might be the fastest and most effective way to get it. Everything depends on the information in question, the interrogator, and the specific person under interrogation.
"But I can't stand people who act as if both they and I are stupid and just wish away reality when the truth is inconvenient."
Unfortunately that is all too common in any argument about torture. Good information is good information, and torture is just another interrogation method -- albeit a particularly ugly one. Useful information doesn't suddenly turn bad just because it's been extracted by torture.
Give me them, an empty room, and a hammer, and I'll probably get whatever I want out of them.
ReplyDeleteI'd trust this a lot more if there were more people with experience in interrogation saying this. So far, all the interrogators I've read about say that torture doesn't work well.
Even in Israel, where the idea of using torture in ticking bomb cases has widespread popular acceptance, no Shin Bet interrogator has been willing to talk about the specifics of how torture yields information. Helicopter pilots who fire missiles at Palestinian terrorists, and snipers who shoot at rioters, have given interviews about their work, the professional and ethical issues involved, the way it fits into fighting terrorism, etc.; Shin Bet torturers to my knowledge never have.
Alon,
ReplyDelete"I'd trust this a lot more if there were more people with experience in interrogation saying this."
Actual torturers (ie. those who admit to being torturers) do say it works. See for example this article
Also we know it works because we have documented instances of it working. There are a number of accounts where people have been tortured for their PIN numbers and gave up the information. And this torture was done by criminals, not some sort of trained interrogator/torturer. A PIN number -- information that can be independently confirmed -- is similar in nature to many other types of information.
Information is information, and torture is just another type of interrogation technique. There is no logical reason why it cannot obtain the same information as any other type of questioning. And just like other types of interrogation, it works well for some information and not so well for others, and is heavily dependent on who is doing the questioning, the subject, and the overall circumstances.
From a purely utilitarian perspective, the biggest problem with torture is producing false positives (although that can also happen with other types of interrogation). But giving false information only works if it can't be checked. If it can, it just gets you tortured some more until you give up the correct information.