That's if you believe those who are perfectly fine with having an Islamic center two blocks from Ground Zero, and think anyone who dares raise an objection is just an ignorant bigot who hates Muslims. A new CNN poll finds that 68% oppose the so-called Ground Zero Mosque. I'd be willing to bet the opposition is actually higher, with some who recognize the project as a bad idea refusing to say so for fear of being smeared as bigots.
It's somewhat bizarre that a massive left-wing smear campaign -- usually employed against actual political opponents -- is in full swing against an overwhelming majority of the country. It's also interesting that many of the individuals leading it are suddenly just so passionate about a supposed religious freedom issue. If the Catholic Church wanted to construct a major center in an area where it was guaranteed to provoke offense & controversy, how many of the same people hysterically smearing mosque opponents as bigots would have the same attitude? I suspect very few, particularly on the left.
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Err, I'm confused. Do you support liberty or not? For what reason would you ban a mosque (in apparent contradiction of the US constitution)?
ReplyDeletePerhaps because to those who follow Islam the mosque would symbolize victory over the 'infidels'. See: Cordoba, Spain.
ReplyDeleteOne can be a libertarian and still believe something is incindiery.
As a liberal I am ashamed of the Islamophilia of the left.
ReplyDeleteI think that they should be allowed to build the mosque wherever they want, but I don't think it is a good idea.
I really don't see why it is such a big deal.
Seems to me this story isn't about islamophilia or islamophobia, but the right of the state to prevent people from meeting on private property and expressing freedom of religion. While not a fan of Islam, I find it interesting how supposedly pro-liberty right-wingers are all-too-happy to abandon their oft-espoused principles when Islam is involved (ironically, an example of the exact same hypocrisy they accuse the left of exhibiting)
ReplyDelete"Err, I'm confused. Do you support liberty or not? For what reason would you ban a mosque (in apparent contradiction of the US constitution)?"
ReplyDeleteI would not ban the mosque, and do not support any attempt by the government to do so. But at the same time I think the mosque in that location is a terrible idea, and I also support the right of people to speak out in protest.
"While not a fan of Islam, I find it interesting how supposedly pro-liberty right-wingers are all-too-happy to abandon their oft-espoused principles"
Except that's a strawman, unless you are talking about some specific individuals or groups. Protesting against its construction is not in any way the same thing as calling for government action to override property rights. There are some that are doing that, but others -- including myself -- are not.
I really don't have a problem with the mosque, according to the people I know in NYC, two blocks is far enough away from ground zero that you'd have to go looking for the mosque. I've also heard that the mosque/center was planned since before 9/11. Anyone know more about that?
ReplyDeleteI read something about Cordoba recently, seems there are conflicting views on that in relation to the NY situation.
ReplyDeletehttp://gotmedieval.blogspot.com/2010/08/professor-newts-distorted-history.html
I'm still not clear why there's a problem with having a mosque a few blocks away from ground-zero. How far away would be appropriately-sensitive? 1 mile? 10 miles? in the next state? This whole thing just seems a stupid excuse for hysteria to me.
ReplyDelete(for the record, I'd prefer there were no mosques nor churches, but given they're both around I think there needs to be equal rights).
Two blocks is pretty close... more than close enough to call it a "Ground Zero Mosque" as many are doing. It is viewed as an attempt to insert an Islamic presence at Ground Zero.
ReplyDeleteIt'll be interesting to see the Christian response once the mosque opens its doors.
ReplyDelete>> close enough to call it a "Ground Zero
ReplyDelete>> Mosque" as many are doing
So what? And Bush used the word "crusade" when discussing the Iraq invasion. There are morons everywhere, and sensible people ignore them.
I would view a mosque near ground zero as an up-yours to the terrorists. It's a demonstration of the American values of liberty, tolerance and freedom of religion, and that you won't throw your values away for terrorists.
I've been following your blog a while, and while I don't see eye-to-eye with you on many/most things, I'm pretty disappointed to read this here.
"So what? And Bush used the word "crusade" when discussing the Iraq invasion. There are morons everywhere, and sensible people ignore them."
ReplyDeleteThat's a pretty weak analogy. We routinely name buildings after things they are more or less near. There's nothing moronic about calling it a Ground Zero Mosque. As I noted in another post, there's an apartment complex 5 blocks away from the UN called the UN Apartments.
"I would view a mosque near ground zero as an up-yours to the terrorists. It's a demonstration of the American values of liberty, tolerance and freedom of religion, and that you won't throw your values away for terrorists."
I can see where some might choose that interpretation. But protesting its construction is also in-line with American values. Claims otherwise are ludicrous in my opinion.
"I've been following your blog a while, and while I don't see eye-to-eye with you on many/most things, I'm pretty disappointed to read this here. "
Disappointed about what? My main response has been to attack the smear campaign against those who object to the mosque. I'm not in favor of banning it. But I think it's perfectly reasonable to object to its presence in that location.
Well, you talk about a "massive left-wing smear campaign", but there's nothing like that apparent on the link you provide. You characterise any argument pro the mosque as vilifying protesters as "islamophobes".
ReplyDeleteThis is undoubtedly a religious-freedom issue, and your assertion that the same people making this claim would not support the Catholic church lacks substance, in my opinion. As I've said in other posts on your blog, the Left (like the Right) is not homogeneous. There might be some on the left who are anti-Christianity, and some who are pro religious freedom. They may not be the same people.
It's also likely that some of those protesting the mosque simply _are_ anti-Islam.
(I don't have a problem with that, as I've said: I'm anti-Islam. But I'm also anti-Christianity) I think there needs to be equal rights for both, otherwise the US loses the separation of church and state.
"Well, you talk about a "massive left-wing smear campaign", but there's nothing like that apparent on the link you provide. You characterise any argument pro the mosque as vilifying protesters as "islamophobes".
ReplyDeleteGenerally when I'm writing about huge internet stories, I don't feel the need to link the 50+ articles that I'm talking about. Just look at Memeorandum and read the left-wing articles about the mosque issue.
"This is undoubtedly a religious-freedom issue,"
Nonsense, in my opinion. This is about a religious group deliberately putting up a center in a place where they know it would cause offense. It's an "in your face" type of action.
"and your assertion that the same people making this claim would not support the Catholic church lacks substance, in my opinion"
Obviously I disagree. I'm not talking about libertarian types, who I believe would be consistent.
" As I've said in other posts on your blog, the Left (like the Right) is not homogeneous. There might be some on the left who are anti-Christianity, and some who are pro religious freedom. They may not be the same people."
Yes, but I'm referring to the majority. Obviously when generalizing, there are going to be exceptions.
"It's also likely that some of those protesting the mosque simply _are_ anti-Islam."
That's true, but this is about location. It wouldn't be a big national issue if an Islamic center was to be built in Philadelphia.
I want to know who the fuck considered building a fucking mosque on ground zero was a good idea. Are they deliberately trying to mock 9/11 victims?
ReplyDelete