Wednesday, October 20, 2010

Torture Successfully Extracts Accurate Information - Again

A Russian businessman, Viktor Grishin, was kidnapped and tortured for information. The criminals were after the PIN numbers to his ATM cards. Unfortunately this type of incident happens occasionally, because criminals -- unlike many anti-torture activists -- understand that in some cases torture can quickly and effectively extract accurate information. The victim was murdered and the body disposed of after the torture took place. But police tracked down the criminals after they withdrew "large amounts of money" from the murdered man's various accounts. The killers apparently forced him to give up multiple PIN numbers. PIN numbers are typical of the type of specific, independently verifiable information that torture can be extremely effective at extracting. As always though, it depends on the situation. There are people who will die or risk greater torture rather than give up their money. But the next time someone tells you that torture doesn't work, tell them that Viktor Grishin, (along with countless thousands of others forced to divulge information about their valuables by torture), begs to differ -- or he would if he were still alive.

5 comments:

  1. I post these types of incidents because there are far too many people who claim that torture can't or doesn't work, and act as if their assertion is factually correct.

    ReplyDelete
  2. If I concede the effectiveness of torture, in some circumstances and with respect to certain kinds of information and when performed on untrained civilians, that does very little to vitiate the moral repugnance of the method, nor its resulting unsuitability as an activity in which Americans ought to engage, nor its appropriateness as an intelligence-gathering method for anti-terrorism activities. Russian hoodlums are not our role models.

    ReplyDelete
  3. "that does very little to vitiate the moral repugnance of the method, nor its resulting unsuitability as an activity in which Americans ought to engage, nor its appropriateness as an intelligence-gathering method for anti-terrorism activities."

    Since I believe that the use of torture is and should be a viable option under certain circumstances involving certain categories of enemies, I've addressed all those arguments before. They are all matters of opinion which people can reasonably see either way. Morality arguments obviously depend on one's particular moral outlook. But the "torture doesn't work" assertion, which is used repeatedly -- often by people who should know better -- is a simple denial of reality.

    Torture has been a common feature of irregular warfare throughout history for various reasons, one of which is that it can sometimes produce accurate intelligence, even when the quick & dirty brutal physical methods are applied. "Where is/are?" type questions, among others, are functionally extremely similar to the ATM PIN number example in the post. Where have you hidden the money? Where are the mines buried? Where is the radio transmitter? Where are the bomb-making materials? Where is the safe house? Where are the hostages? Information is information and there are various ways to get it. The effectiveness of any interrogation method depends on the interrogator, the person with the information, and the type of information in question.

    ReplyDelete
  4. "...that does very little to vitiate the moral repugnance of the method, nor its resulting unsuitability as an activity in which Americans ought to engage..."

    As UNRR pointed out, this is completely subjective, and wholly dependent on the individual making the assessment. Personally - I think that it's even MORE morally repugnant if we don't take advantage of persuasive methods to extract information - especially if people's lives are on the line.

    And not appropriate for counter-terrorism? Hogwash. Khaled-Sheikh Mohammed was more than eager to reveal the details of the Al-Qaeda network after a few sessions of waterboarding, and as Dick Cheney pointed out, "He had a professorial side," making use of "chalkboards and charts" to spill the beans.

    "Russian hoodlums are not our role models." Well if their methods work, then they should be.

    They were right when they said "War is Hell" you know. While I don't prescribe genocide, and I would urge for Americans to limit collateral damage, the truth of the matter is that we ought to be as nasty, innovative, or crafty as we have to be to kill our terrorist enemies.

    ReplyDelete