"Well if I had to choose in terms of being a Republican, I’d go with Rush Limbaugh," Cheney told moderator Bob Schieffer. "My take on it was Colin had already left the party -- I didn't know he was still a Republican."Politico describes this as "an extraordinary public swipe at Colin Powell." That just ridiculous. Colin Powell took an "extraordinary swipe" at Republicans when he endorsed a liberal Democrat for president. There's nothing unusual at all about Cheney saying he didn't know Powell was still a Republican. What evidence is there that he is? He voted Democratic, and has had nothing but criticism for the GOP since. Has he had a single word to say in opposition to Obama's agenda?A somewhat taken-aback Schieffer asked: "You think he's not a Republican?"
As for Cheney's comparison between Powell & Rush Limbaugh, Cheney is correct. I don't like Limbaugh, but there's no question he's a Republican. Powell appears to be a Democrat who hasn't gotten around to changing his registration yet.
Calling Powell a Democrat is farcical. Disaffected Republicans like me and him are just newly independent actors who've found ourselves outside the 25% rump of a party that remains.
ReplyDeleteThis whole thing is just more proof that while many in the country may be center-right, the Republican party sure isn't.
Speaking of Cheney shutting up, why don't you take your own advice? The party would also be better served if every other "enhanced interrogation" supporter shut up as well. Believe whatever you all will, but you can't rebuild the party on a pro-torture platform.
Oh, and I'll endorse TMV's comments
ReplyDelete"Calling Powell a Democrat is farcical."
ReplyDeleteYeah, because people who vote Democrat and support Democrats aren't Democrats. Anyone who would actually vote for Obama shouldn't be calling themselves a Republican. There's nothing wrong with being an independent.
"This whole thing is just more proof that while many in the country may be center-right, the Republican party sure isn't."
Nonsense. The Republican party is definitely center-right.
" The party would also be better served if every other "enhanced interrogation" supporter shut up as well."
But the country wouldn't. Someone has to speak out against terrorist-rights supporters and their naive idiocy. We need more people speaking up in favor of it, not less.
"but you can't rebuild the party on a pro-torture platform."
More nonsense. Many people support torture of terrorists under certain circumstances. And if/when we suffer another major attack, those numbers will rise dramatically.
"Oh, and I'll endorse TMV's comments"
That guy takes the same ridiculous position as Politico. The "slap in the face" came from Powell. He deserves anything people who are actual loyal Republicans say. Powell voting for Obama is no different than if some prominent Democrat came out in support of Dick Cheney. People would question whether he was even a Democrat at all.
> "because people who vote Democrat and support Democrats aren't Democrats. Anyone who would actually vote for Obama shouldn't be calling themselves a Republican. There's nothing wrong with being an independent."
ReplyDeleteSo you have 3 positions:
1) Powell is a Democrat.
2) Powell should not call himself a Republican.
3) Powell is an independent.
#1 remains farcical.
#2 is your opinion, albeit one that's as idiotic as the Huckabees or the Club for Growths, since Powell would obviously like to continue being a Republican, if the party were what it once was.
#3 works, but contradicts your "appears to be a Democrat" nonsense.
> "Nonsense, The Republican party is definitely center-right."
In its current state there is obviously nothing center about it, so I'm not sure why I'm bothering to respond to someone who's perspective is so divorced from reality.
> "More nonsense. Many people support torture of terrorists under certain circumstances. And if/when we suffer another major attack, those numbers will rise dramatically."
Better keep hoping for the hysteria of another major attack then, asshole. Fearful overreaction to terror is all you've got.
"1) Powell is a Democrat.
ReplyDelete2) Powell should not call himself a Republican.
3) Powell is an independent."
1) I'm not sure what he's calling himself these days.
2) definitely
3) It appears so
"In its current state there is obviously nothing center about it"
Yeah, that's real obvious. The GOP has been center-right for a long time and still is.
"I'm bothering to respond to someone who's perspective is so divorced from reality."
That's pretty funny coming from you. My perspective is more realistic than yours in every category.
"Better keep hoping for the hysteria of another major attack then, asshole."
The chances of another attack will be higher if people with your positions get their way. That's why I oppose them. Obviously no one is hoping for another attack.
" Fearful overreaction to terror is all you've got."
Oh please. Ridiculous leftist propaganda is all you've got. Do you have any more talking points you want to try out?
Oks then, go on with your 'realistic in every category' perspective of a 25% party having the center. It's amusing, if nothing else.
ReplyDeleteAnd now all I've got is ridiculous leftist propaganda? *yawn*... I guess I'm done with my 'talking points' for the day.
"Oks then, go on with your 'realistic in every category' perspective of a 25% party having the center. "
ReplyDeleteThe GOP's current poll numbers are just that -- current poll numbers. It's still one of the two major parties and it's still center-right, just as the Democrats are still center-left.
"I guess I'm done with my 'talking points' for the day."
That's good. I don't like responding to garden-variety leftist drivel.
For anyone curious where I get all my leftist propaganda and drivel, some quiz results. Apparently because I refuse to support torture-as-policy or the hard right's other massive overreactions to terror (see: Iraq War), I'm some kind of foreign policy leftist.
ReplyDeleteSo yeah: when all else fails, disparage the messenger. And continue pretending Republicans can be inclusive of center-righters while excluding the Colin Powells of the world.
" Apparently because I refuse to support torture-as-policy or the hard right's other massive overreactions to terror (see: Iraq War), I'm some kind of foreign policy leftist."
ReplyDeleteI was responding to some specific comments. 1) Your ridiculous assertion that I wanted another attack. That's a typical leftist comment. 2) The nonsense about "fearful overreactions to terror." The whole "fear" argument is complete bs when applied to one party. Republicans and Democrats both regularly attempt to scare voters in one way or another in order to gain votes. It is a standard political tactic in no way exclusive to the GOP. And just because you dislike certain Republican policy positions with regard to terrorism doesn't make them overreactions.
"while excluding the Colin Powells of the world."
No one excluded him. He voluntarily chose to go over to the Democrats in the last election. In other words, he knifed the GOP in the back. Had he voted for McCain (or even just kept his mouth shut) I'd be supporting him -- just as I hope people like Susan Collins & Olympia Snowe remain Republicans.
You asserted that the numbers in support of your position would rise if there were another attack. And while you did not mention it, that is the only way a pro-torture position could be positive for the party. Because as stands, you've got roughly 25% of people on either side of this issue who are partisans and won't be swayed either way. Then you've got the middle 50% which could be swayed by the issue of torture. But that 50% isn't distributed into neat right-left chunks. It's uneven, meaning that someone in the rightmost portion of that 50% may be someone like who opposes torture. Thus, in the absence of another attack to instill more hysteria, a pro-torture position alienates more people than it attracts, and this effect grows the further we get from 9/11.
ReplyDeleteThus, if the only way you can hope for a pro-torture position to help politically is if you are hoping for another attack.
This doesn't mean you actually want the US to be attacked again. I trust not. But it does mean that your pro-torture position is a political loser. You've long-ago succumbed to Pundit's Fallacy on this.
> "No one excluded him."
Your joining Rush Limbaugh in calling him a Democrat is a form of exclusion, albeit a farcical one.
"Thus, if the only way you can hope for a pro-torture position to help politically "
ReplyDeleteI don't care if it helps politically. Doing what is necessary to protect the U.S., and keeping our options open with regard to methods of gaining information from terrorists, is more important than temporary political advantage. If Obama secretly orders the waterboarding of an Al Qaeda member and the info leaks, you won't see me attacking him for hypocrisy. I'll be defending him.
"Your joining Rush Limbaugh in calling him a Democrat is a form of exclusion, albeit a farcical one."
I didn't call him a Democrat. I pointed out that he might as well be one if he's going to vote Democratic, support the Democratic administration, and only attack Republicans. He excluded himself. I think I actually said he'd be better labeled as an independent.
It's hard for me to call anyone who makes the statement -- "the public wants more government, not less" -- ,as Powell did, anything but a statist, regardless of which party he claims. The independents may not go Republican or Democrat (both parties are losing support, and the independents are growing in numbers) -- they may form an anti-statist party.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Powell is a statist sort of centrist. I'm an independent anti-statist, but not so much that I'm willing to deny reality. What Powell said was correct: The public does, in fact, want more government right now.
ReplyDeleteWe're in the midst of a populist outcry for intervention against 'evil' banks and Wall Street. Which is a bad thing. But to suggest it's not happening is to be blind.
Rembmer H. L. Mencken: "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
As Obama put it to some bank CEOs recently: ""My administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks."