A quick skim through the left-wing blogosphere reveals many trying to blame Bill O'Reilly, the pro-life movement, or even conservatives & the right in general for the murder of Dr. Tiller. There are also ridiculous attempts to draw some kind of equivalence between this killing and radical Islamic terrorism, as if abortion providers were being gunned down every day -- rather than once every ten years or so.
Whenever some sort of crazy killing takes place, there are always people looking for someone or something to blame -- whether it's inanimate objects like guns or books, television or video games, music, or some other factor or person loosely connected in some way to the killer. But lunatics who kill people do not need outside forces. They always find reasons for murder. Unless he had accomplices, the only person responsible for this murder was the actual killer.
The killer was willing to to walk into a church full of people and murder someone in cold blood. He did this almost certainly knowing that he would be caught. People don't do things like that because they watched a tv show. They do it because they live in their own little world where the killing makes sense.
There are also ridiculous attempts to draw some kind of equivalence between this killing and radical Islamic terrorism, as if abortion providers were being gunned down every day -- rather than once every ten years or so.
ReplyDeleteI'm fairly certain radical Islamic terrorism does not happen every day in the US, unless I've really missed something. However, criminal acts against abortion providers do happen every day.
Bill O'Reilly has done 28 pieces on Dr. Tiller over the years, most of them extremely inflammatory. Even if he is not legally responsible for the murder, he is morally complicit. Anyone who does not think that words can kill should talk to Charles Manson. He never killed anyone before he got to prison.
"I'm fairly certain radical Islamic terrorism does not happen every day in the US"
ReplyDeleteThe point is that there is no comparison. Radical Islamic terrorism has multiple groups which deliberately target and kill people regularly, if not in the U.S. The radical anti-abortion movement has had two nutcases actually willing to kill anyone in the last 10 years. They are anomalies even among the extremes of the anti-abortion movement.
"However, criminal acts against abortion providers do happen every day."
The last time an abortion provider was killed was 10 years ago. It's (fortunately) an extremely rare occurence. We aren't talking about other crimes, but about murder.
"Bill O'Reilly has done 28 pieces on Dr. Tiller over the years, most of them extremely inflammatory. Even if he is not legally responsible for the murder, he is morally complicit. "
Nonsense. He's not even the slightest bit complicit, morally or otherwise. He could have done 500 pieces on Tiller, and unless he called for him to be killed in any of them, he wouldn't be complict. He disagreed with Tiller's practices and wanted to shut him down with legal action. He did absolutely nothing wrong.
Although I strongly disagree with him on the issue of Tiller, O'Reilly is entitled to his opinion and has absolutely nothing to do with this murder. I'm posting a link tomorrow with some background on the killer. He has been a fringe lunatic for a long time. And no one in the extreme anti-abortion movement needed O'Reilly to tell them about Tiller. He's been public enemy #1 for them well before O'Reilly started doing pieces on him.
The attacks on O'Reilly are nothing more than a blatant political attempt to capitalize on a murder in order to smear him. It's also an attack on free speech, and a major case of hypocrisy. Many of the same people condemning O'Reilly are constantly using inflammatory speech regarding political opponents.
I think your post is an unintentional straw man because of the differences between proximate and ultimate causes.
ReplyDeleteIn proximate terms, the killer is indeed the only one "responsible" (to call it something) for the murder of Dr. Tiller.
However, the perpetrator did not live in a vacuum. I think it is reasonable to believe that inflammatory rhetoric is a contributing factor into inducing the mindset and motivation that brought this to happen, (that is, they are [some of the] ultimate causes). The actual issue with the LWB in this case is their holding that the right, Bill O'Reilly's rhetoric, etc, are the only ultimate causes. In actuality, lots of people are exposed to those things, and almost all of them do not kill persons. That's why there must be factors involved.
"I think your post is an unintentional straw man because of the differences between proximate and ultimate causes."
ReplyDeleteI'm not the one trying to assign blame to anyone other than the killer.
"However, the perpetrator did not live in a vacuum. I think it is reasonable to believe that inflammatory rhetoric is a contributing factor into inducing the mindset and motivation that brought this to happen"
You can make that speculation about almost any type of crime. There's no need to speculate about inflammatory rhetoric in this case. We have a guy who already believes that abortion providers are murderers. From what I've seen he believes it for religious reasons. On top of that, he has all sorts of other radical ideas, and is possibly mentally unstable too. There's no reason to look for outside influences, let alone try to assign blame to some tv show that didn't even bring up the issue until long after the killer formed his beliefs.
Is it possible that outside factors contribute to a deranged individuals deranged ideas and actions? Sure. But all the people trying to assign blame to those factors in this case are merely jumping to conclusions, based on their own political outlook.
This is the worst post you wrote. Are you kidding? On crack? Did a fucking Christian Hijack this blog? Christians condone this type of talk. He was a baby killer, someone should kill him. Blah blah blah. Yes he was not a sane person. Neither are Christians in general. The quote attributed to him, shows he had friends in the anti abortion movement. Some of those knew, or suspected and did nothing. Have no doubts, these are true Christians. These fundies know the bible, until the cherry picking dim wits at church in Sunday best. They are just as intolerant as their god.
ReplyDeleteEvery fucking person(Christian) he knew and communicated with should be interrogated(water boarded) until the fuckers come clean. Then they can go do some hard time in the slammer, learning how to be a good girl friend.
"This is the worst post you wrote. Are you kidding? On crack"
ReplyDeleteYeah, i'll take that as a logical rebuttal. Try actually pointing out what's wrong with it. That tends to help.
" Did a fucking Christian Hijack this blog? Christians condone this type of talk. "
What are you talking about? What type of talk?
"Yes he was not a sane person. Neither are Christians in general."
You think all Christians are insane? Really? That's pretty insane.
"The quote attributed to him, shows he had friends in the anti abortion movement. Some of those knew, or suspected and did nothing."
That's possible, but how do you know that? The guy is a complete nut. Maybe he just got up on Sunday and heard a voice in his head telling him that it was time to kill Dr. Tiller. There's no need to assume a big conspiracy.
"Have no doubts, these are true Christians. These fundies know the bible, until the cherry picking dim wits at church in Sunday best. They are just as intolerant as their god."
Does this have some sort of point that has anything to do with anything I wrote?
"Every fucking person(Christian) he knew and communicated with should be interrogated(water boarded) until the fuckers come clean"
If anyone else was involved in the crime they should obviously be prosecuted too.
I found it funny how quickly you were willing to let all the Christian fundies off the hook for this. Did you even think about the group you were defending?
ReplyDeleteAt the time of Roeder’s arrest Sunday afternoon along Interstate 35 in Johnson County, a television station captured the vehicle on video. There on the dashboard was a note that read “Cheryl” and “Op Rescue” with a phone number.
Do you think this is the only link to this group? Have you read some of the crap these groups write? He is not alone. When the trial hits. His friends and family list will come out.
http://fightingignorance2.ning.com/forum/topics/chritian-l0ve
http://www.godhatesfags.com/written/fliers/20090601_George-Tiller-Funeral-g.pdf
Yes I think to believe in any god is insane. So any Christian would fall into that category. As would Muslim, Jew etc.
http://operationrescue.org/files/Tiller%20Report%20II.pdf
ReplyDelete